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Youth Transistion.


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#1 RaspberryLeviathan

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:27 PM

A friend and I were having a discussion about underground and local bands, recording spaces, just a bunch of stuff like that the other day and I asked him did he notice that a lot of youngsters nowadays (this is completely only relative to what I have observed) aren't hardly asking for guitars as gifts anymore? Then we got on this completely nostalgic rave about how we first started playing guitar (me) and bass (him) in our early teens and how we started bands and wrote songs and jammed out with other friends.
I look at this now because my band is currently in the process of trying to put out an EP after seven years of being together and I've noticed that a lot of the kids I used to jam with aren't really playing music or playing in bands anymore and it doesn't seem all hip and now with the younger crowd.
Basically we just ranted about the sacredness of the guitar and the sort of "right of passage" and satisfaction of banging out racket to your favorite CDs, etc. etc.

Discussion? I just found it an interesting topic because I see few "little rock and roll kids" nowadays in my young adulthood.
This could also span in to a discussion of generational differences and changes among the youth, and oh, of course, the rise of the "Pop Idols".
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#2 spirograph

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:31 PM

i blame Guitar Hero
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#3 RaspberryLeviathan

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:33 AM

i blame Guitar Hero


Now that you mention it, it is Guitar Hero's fault.
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#4 spirograph

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

Now that you mention it, it is Guitar Hero's fault.


it was a bit reactionary of me to say that, but its true. there are other factors too, computer games generally, reality TV, immigration (dunno how, but im sure the dailymail readers would agree). its like the #### 80s all over again at the minute, regarding fashions, hair styles, music, etc. i grew up in the 80s (born in 83) n it was a #### horrible time, i dont know why anyone wants to celebrate that time. even the #### falklands war is a joke to the bbc, there was recently an article on beeb news, detailing the argentine and brit forces that could be expected to play a role if it all happened again. #### necrophiles.
anyway, my point is, that there are other factors, mainly the media.
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#5 RaspberryLeviathan

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

it was a bit reactionary of me to say that, but its true. there are other factors too, computer games generally, reality TV, immigration (dunno how, but im sure the dailymail readers would agree). its like the #### 80s all over again at the minute, regarding fashions, hair styles, music, etc. i grew up in the 80s (born in 83) n it was a #### horrible time, i dont know why anyone wants to celebrate that time. even the #### falklands war is a joke to the bbc, there was recently an article on beeb news, detailing the argentine and brit forces that could be expected to play a role if it all happened again. #### necrophiles.
anyway, my point is, that there are other factors, mainly the media.


It is like the 80s. Th fashion/style aspect of it primarily comes from the "hipster" counterculture that all the kids think is trendy, along with their bands they collectively listen to as a part of their "hipster ethos" I guess. I think they think that they're new-new wave. Video games and reality tv also play a big part in how society's interests have shifted from the arts to the superficial aspects of "life" as the media portrays it. I'm not sure how immigration would fit in lol, but I do think that divorce rates, teen depression, and all that other ilk that normally plagues a percentage of any generation's youth is a factor as well, rather kids are more so just accepting whatever circumstances and settling, rather than seeking out some form of "revolution" by their own means, be it the arts or actually getting into the idea of seeking out social reform or understanding the generation of this planet that they exist in, seeking a sort of catharsis.
But media has scrambled a lot of brains. Media could go into politics and politics are a world wide business, so there are many things to blame.
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#6 BigMuffStang

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:22 PM

RasberryLeviathan you are a wise, wise man.

#7 RaspberryLeviathan

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:34 PM

RasberryLeviathan you are a wise, wise man.


I'm a girl ._. (normal face)
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#8 Auto-Immune

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 03:31 PM

Well that explains it!
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#9 BigMuffStang

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:05 PM

well, then you're a wise, wise woman

#10 spirograph

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:50 PM

It is like the 80s. Th fashion/style aspect of it primarily comes from the "hipster" counterculture that all the kids think is trendy, along with their bands they collectively listen to as a part of their "hipster ethos" I guess. I think they think that they're new-new wave. Video games and reality tv also play a big part in how society's interests have shifted from the arts to the superficial aspects of "life" as the media portrays it. I'm not sure how immigration would fit in lol, but I do think that divorce rates, teen depression, and all that other ilk that normally plagues a percentage of any generation's youth is a factor as well, rather kids are more so just accepting whatever circumstances and settling, rather than seeking out some form of "revolution" by their own means, be it the arts or actually getting into the idea of seeking out social reform or understanding the generation of this planet that they exist in, seeking a sort of catharsis.
But media has scrambled a lot of brains. Media could go into politics and politics are a world wide business, so there are many things to blame.


it looks to me as though the 'teen depression'/counterculture/revolutionary/progressive element has been totally co-opted, and all the imagery and culture and art has been claimed by the mainstream. this is a natural part of capitalism and fashion of course, but i dread to think how id be as a teenager today. i see people who would be wanting to kick me in at school, and these days they think theyre all alternative or something. its that thing about buying something to put on your hair, to make it look like you just got up. i do that for free.
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#11 RaspberryLeviathan

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:01 AM

it looks to me as though the 'teen depression'/counterculture/revolutionary/progressive element has been totally co-opted, and all the imagery and culture and art has been claimed by the mainstream. this is a natural part of capitalism and fashion of course, but i dread to think how id be as a teenager today. i see people who would be wanting to kick me in at school, and these days they think theyre all alternative or something. its that thing about buying something to put on your hair, to make it look like you just got up. i do that for free.


Yeah, I couldn't imagine being a teenager is this day and age, especially around years 15 and 16. If society as a whole keeps on spiralling down the drain, then they're not going to have any kind of future to look forward too. The arts will be the last thing, but I doubt anyone will deliberately think of arting all over the place to recreate a renaissance phase. Eithr way, to sum everything up, we are being consumed by society, it's word the holy media bible. So that makes the internet Jesus and the Government (SOPA/PIPA/ACTA) Satan.

In actuality, the government attacks on the internet would probably actually start a revolution, civil war pending. People would take up arms if the internet got cancelled.
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#12 spirograph

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

In actuality, the government attacks on the internet would probably actually start a revolution, civil war pending. People would take up arms if the internet got cancelled.


deleting the net probably would start a revolt, if 'the powers that be' didnt sling us all in detention centres beforehand. as for taking up arms, in UK we arent allowed guns, so 'taking up arms' is really just lobbing rocks at things, like in palestine. although every now and then some farmer somewhere loses his sense of perspective and shoots a few people, then himself. hardly revolutionary is it. although i think that you need to BE the revolution. the revolution is in us, not something we need to go burn stuff down to enact. i think the end NEVER justifies the means. and once a person/group takes that stance, they descend into tyranny. as for revolution/civil unrest, last year in UK we had some rioting, triggered by some cops shooting an unarmed black man. and the government asked the courts to hand out bigger sentences than normal, for the people who got busted. so it got a bit silly, on average, 4x the sentence was given out!!! completely undermined all the guidelines and precedents. why the courts listened to the govt i dont know. and now its all getting a bit tense again. the olympics are gonna be interesting, to say the least!
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#13 RaspberryLeviathan

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 02:04 PM

deleting the net probably would start a revolt, if 'the powers that be' didnt sling us all in detention centres beforehand. as for taking up arms, in UK we arent allowed guns, so 'taking up arms' is really just lobbing rocks at things, like in palestine. although every now and then some farmer somewhere loses his sense of perspective and shoots a few people, then himself. hardly revolutionary is it. although i think that you need to BE the revolution. the revolution is in us, not something we need to go burn stuff down to enact. i think the end NEVER justifies the means. and once a person/group takes that stance, they descend into tyranny. as for revolution/civil unrest, last year in UK we had some rioting, triggered by some cops shooting an unarmed black man. and the government asked the courts to hand out bigger sentences than normal, for the people who got busted. so it got a bit silly, on average, 4x the sentence was given out!!! completely undermined all the guidelines and precedents. why the courts listened to the govt i dont know. and now its all getting a bit tense again. the olympics are gonna be interesting, to say the least!


I've been reading up on Wicca (actually an intelligent take on religion, spirituality, etc.) and on a website I read that collectively we are our own saviors and it is up to us to be the change and usher in the change that we want to see in the world. They also dispel all religions "signature gods" and come to the conclusion that there is "one divine being whose essence is love". Not trying to be terribly religious, but from their standpoint a God, the God, whichever god is ine to have a prominence in one's life, but when human beings don't recognize that there aren't large hands visibly crashing trains or whatever and that we, human beings who inhabit this world of man, are who ultimately determine the well being of the human race and societal changes. Really not trying to be overbearing hear, but religious, spiritual, atheist, whatever, or not, people need to understand the fact that everything buzzing down here is entirely the product of man/society and its evolution over the years.

And that church and state should remain the most separate, and that the state needs to get it's act together. Corporatism masking as Capitalism and the myth known as the "democratic government". Human beings have gone from consumer to the consumed. Here in the US of A, the middle class is virtually disappearing as the gap between the top 1%/upper class and the lower class gets wider and wider. My theory is, that if the economy doesn't stabilize and the wealth distribution doesn't even out, then the economy will get to a point where the upper class comes crashing through the void that was the middle class into the lower class and once the dust settles, everyone will be fuqqed. And then Japan will take us over and give us Gundams,the part that I don't mind at all because, well, Gundams. This could take years, 5 to 10, in which time the extreme opposite will happen, but at what cost? Will we still have this "democratic nation" or will it be the most tyrannical control system masked as a democratic nation? The future, man.

Also, I saw a news blurb about the 2012 Olympics and how there are missiles on top of apartment buildings and whatnot. Basically a lot of arms just set up to knock something down if anything were to happen. Personally, I wouldn't have put that on the news because such a massive show of force can come off as an egging on of hostile forces, and by god they'll know what's all set up in enough time to figure out an alternate way to shenaniganize, but eh, the news.

(This was sort of a ramble).
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#14 Mad-Mike

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:27 PM

On the original subject of this thread, there are several things I think that are contributing to the lack of "Guitar playing kids"...

1.) It's no longer fashionable - Lady Gaga, Lana DelRay, and Justin Bieber, basically either non-guitar playing or not well known for their guitar skills, are the popular form of music to the mainstream "Sheeple" who follow whatever is hip. It's fashionable to dress up super colorful and dance like a diva now. It could be the economy (guitar gear is more expensive than the body you brought with you), it could be the disheartened kids who played guitar hero and thought it would be easy to just don an Epiphone SG and suddenly become Tony Iommi overnight, I dunno. But It's no longer that "in" to play guitar.

2.) The Music Clique Thing Is Over (for the most part) - I don't think there is a single indentifyable label that I"ve heard of now that a person calls themselves if they listen to a certain type of music. Sure the previous cliques exist, but it seems most people these days listen to a big mix of music without subscribing to pretentious trends. I quite like this part of it. It used to be music is a tool to be social, now it's more like the internet is a tool to be social, and music is just the background noise that keeps you from having to listen to the fan inside the computer whirr. Hot Topic still sells the same stuff they sold 10 years ago, it seems the guitar trends stopped on my faves (Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Mustang) and stuck there after the big Indie craze. Actually, Indie now means nothing, at one time indie was not a STYLE, it was a business scheme for music production. Now it seems to mean bespectacled stocky fella with mutton chops, a Jazzmaster, and 1920's clothing, and a predilection towards things that are 70's and 80's, but he does'nt really care if you're different anymore, because everythings cool. It's sort of a "post-music-industry" era for guitar.

3.) Guitar Hero - Too may kids picked up that plastic facsimile of a Gibson SG, thought "hey, I can do this on a real one", and then realized that it takes years and hours of practice on a REAL guitar rather than some silly plastic controller and a video game console to play guitar. Guitar Hero is for drunken parties and hilarity, real guitar is also for drunken parties, but instead of being the funny looking guy with a tiny size plastic Guitar shaped object on facebook, you are the badass on Facebook rocking all the drunks with a REAL guitar.

4.) Guitar is Cyclic - We had a period like this before, it was the beginning of the 2000s, when we had Brittney Speared, and the Backdoor Boys and N*S####. Then before that, were the early 90's "New Crushes on the Block" and McDonald's very on McHammer! Before Kurt Cobain took em' all out with his Fender Mustang. Before that, we had SynthPop in the 80's, where all the old guitar players got scared everything would be replaced by Gary Numan and his big gamut of "evil" synthesizers (and I quite like Gary Numan), and then the 70's, where people thought Disco was going to overtake rock and leave guitars going "budda,budda,budda,budda,budda" in the back ground through meager wahs and phase shifters for the rest of eternity. It seems due, the whole 2000's were guitar HEAVY! Guitar Hero, Nu-Metal, Emo, Screamo, even Indie Hipster kids. The 2000's are a big reason we see a ton of Jaguars and Jazzmasters being released now. The whole "Youtube Guitarist" thing I was wound up in for awhile.

Maybe "Retro-Grunge" will come next, it seems it's in the works being as all this Nirvana stuff has been going on lately, Soundgarden has reformed, Pearl Jam...uh..never left us. Just throw in some RHCP, get the Stone Temple Pilots back together, and then throw in some reunions of the GIn Blossoms, Bush, and the Spin Doctors for good measure, and we'll be seeing boatloads of guitars selling again.

The way I see it, either guitar is going through it's wane part of it's cycle, so less kids are doing it, or truly, Led Zepplin will be rendered as "classical music". Come to think of it, I've never heard of a single person who listens to Classical, New Age, or any of those other NPR staples anymore. I know a few people who still listen to Jazz, but if record stores were still a mainstay, I would not be surprised to see the tapes of guitar's days past hit the bins with the Stravinsky suite and Django's band of Gypsies tapes. I don't like it, but what can anyone do?

Of course, I have my own dystopian thoughts about society in general without involving guitar, but I'll keep em' for myself as this post is already getting quite long.
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#15 redman1401

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:33 PM

Maybe "Retro-Grunge" will come next, it seems it's in the works being as all this Nirvana stuff has been going on lately, Soundgarden has reformed, Pearl Jam...uh..never left us. Just throw in some RHCP, get the Stone Temple Pilots back together, and then throw in some reunions of the GIn Blossoms, Bush, and the Spin Doctors for good measure, and we'll be seeing boatloads of guitars selling again.

You're in l####, bush released an album last year, and is touring, and the Gin blossoms actually did a show near me just recently.
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#16 LordTrazaza

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:30 PM

Well being a high schooler of age 15, I'll tell you it's a nightmare being an avid musician an even liking things like art. I grow up in a very small, conservative town, to put it into perspective, imagine Aberdeen (call me cliche) in Tennessee, that's exactly how it is. Rednecks, and jocks, oh and it's 99.9% white here. I hardly have any friends who play music and many of them don't appreciate older music or anything in the past. The only people who actually praise me are people around 40 or 50 because they grew up listening to music I play. The hipster group is also prominent and is kinda disgusting, I briefly bought into that crowd and god it's hypocritical. The word "mainstream" makes me sick sometimes, and how they have to like all these underground bands for the sake of being different, I like alterantive but what happened to the huge alternative movement in the late 80's and into the 90's? So, Raspberry Leviathan, I am deeply concerned for my future. I would love to start a revolution (semi) with music, get a band together and play in the bigger city near us but that's hardly realistic. Personally I don't like how pop artists can make millions from auto-tuning their voices and singing to music they don't even write. Has music just become lyrics about all the crap we live in put to a I IV I V chord progression? Where did the passion go? And what happened to all of the art? I mean in the 20th century at least art was still appreciated but these days the only art people care about is body image. Get a job,get sad, write a poem, learn to play guitar, and write a song about it, that's what kids my age should do. But nope, they get on facebook and take pictures of themselves to look good and grow up in a sheltered society, unaware of the world moving. I apologize for people my age, I do my best to not be ignorant.

#17 foxyloxy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:07 PM

Well being a high schooler of age 15, I'll tell you it's a nightmare being an avid musician an even liking things like art. I grow up in a very small, conservative town, to put it into perspective, imagine Aberdeen (call me cliche) in Tennessee, that's exactly how it is. Rednecks, and jocks, oh and it's 99.9% white here. I hardly have any friends who play music and many of them don't appreciate older music or anything in the past. The only people who actually praise me are people around 40 or 50 because they grew up listening to music I play. The hipster group is also prominent and is kinda disgusting, I briefly bought into that crowd and god it's hypocritical. The word "mainstream" makes me sick sometimes, and how they have to like all these underground bands for the sake of being different, I like alterantive but what happened to the huge alternative movement in the late 80's and into the 90's? So, Raspberry Leviathan, I am deeply concerned for my future. I would love to start a revolution (semi) with music, get a band together and play in the bigger city near us but that's hardly realistic. Personally I don't like how pop artists can make millions from auto-tuning their voices and singing to music they don't even write. Has music just become lyrics about all the crap we live in put to a I IV I V chord progression? Where did the passion go? And what happened to all of the art? I mean in the 20th century at least art was still appreciated but these days the only art people care about is body image. Get a job,get sad, write a poem, learn to play guitar, and write a song about it, that's what kids my age should do. But nope, they get on facebook and take pictures of themselves to look good and grow up in a sheltered society, unaware of the world moving. I apologize for people my age, I do my best to not be ignorant.

Move to Australia! Seriously, just move to a place that does have a supportive artistic community, they do still exist believe it or not don't get trapped by small town problems just find something better.

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#18 brandonwinmill

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

Well being a high schooler of age 15, I'll tell you it's a nightmare being an avid musician an even liking things like art. I grow up in a very small, conservative town, to put it into perspective, imagine Aberdeen (call me cliche) in Tennessee, that's exactly how it is. Rednecks, and jocks, oh and it's 99.9% white here. I hardly have any friends who play music and many of them don't appreciate older music or anything in the past. The only people who actually praise me are people around 40 or 50 because they grew up listening to music I play. The hipster group is also prominent and is kinda disgusting, I briefly bought into that crowd and god it's hypocritical. The word "mainstream" makes me sick sometimes, and how they have to like all these underground bands for the sake of being different, I like alterantive but what happened to the huge alternative movement in the late 80's and into the 90's? So, Raspberry Leviathan, I am deeply concerned for my future. I would love to start a revolution (semi) with music, get a band together and play in the bigger city near us but that's hardly realistic. Personally I don't like how pop artists can make millions from auto-tuning their voices and singing to music they don't even write. Has music just become lyrics about all the crap we live in put to a I IV I V chord progression? Where did the passion go? And what happened to all of the art? I mean in the 20th century at least art was still appreciated but these days the only art people care about is body image. Get a job,get sad, write a poem, learn to play guitar, and write a song about it, that's what kids my age should do. But nope, they get on facebook and take pictures of themselves to look good and grow up in a sheltered society, unaware of the world moving. I apologize for people my age, I do my best to not be ignorant.

I don't know where to start. Nothing you are going through is any different than what i went through. They used to say that only 1 kid in your town knew who Lou Reed was and that kid ended up being the coolest kid in town even though every one hated him. It's tricky. I grew up in the late 80's and early 90's and everyone hated nirvana. Then they all loved them. Then kurt did unplugged and they hated it, right before they loved it again. I think that's why my friends all vary in age. I have close friends 10 or 15 years younger than me and some 30 years older. I doubt if very many generations were all into the same thing. You just need to be you and don't let others influence your opinions. Set the trend instead of following it. The thing you have to be careful of is not hating anyone who does like the stuff you don't. Respect their opinions no matter if you agree or not and if everyone did that then we'd all be fine.

The hipster thing is a whole other aggravating subject. I have plenty of friends who are touring musicians that have fallen into the hipster mentality. They frustrate me. The general attitude from them is that Paul McCartney is a hack and John Lennon is a genius. That is the old school hipster. The new breed says Paul is a hack and John is great but George is the real genius. It's stupid. They can't say they were all great. Paul was the furthest thing from a hack and i get angry when they say that. Then it always ends up with David Gilmour and Roger Waters are ok but Syd is the real deal. It's like picking someone for the sake of being different just to be different and that bothers me. If you really believe that then ok, but that isn't the case usually.

It doesn't matter what progression you use as long as you play it like you own it and it's real. Practice like you play. Practice as much as possible and leave it all out there. The magic will happen, i promise you. I'm glad to know there are a few kids out there who get it. If everyone got it then you wouldn't be special and you wouldn't want it. Embrace your difference and run with it.

If you can't make it to Australia then New Orleans is open to just about anything. You would fit right in.
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#19 Doug

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 11:20 AM

Hi, Brandon. Love your wisdom.

Cheers,
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#20 LordTrazaza

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:35 PM

I understand, Brandon. It's way too easy to hate on those who like the opposite of I do, to become cynical. I practice guitar and singing everyday and I know my time will come, whether my mom likes it or not. It's hard for me not to hate the only active band at my school, they get a lot of credit for playing all of this newgrass stuff that i'm not really a fan of, but I try my best to put that aside and maybe learn something from the drummer, whom I am friends with. Perhaps the reason I dislike them is that they've been playing for a couple of years together and while I started playing guitar at the end of elementary school, I have never been in a solid band, I wasn't good friends with them when they formed a band. I feel like I missed the train and am waiting at the station for the next one, just the waiting part bugs me. I do have a friend who is learning bass and know a drummer or two so not all hope is lost, just I'm having trouble writing original music and lyrics. I don't really care though, this is what I've wanted to do for a long time and I know it's not easy. It's funny you should mention New Orleans, my family is actually from Louisiana and I have been to New Orleans once.
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