Is the Jaguar HH for me?

quilted

Hi all,

I've always loved the looks of the Jaguar, but I have realized that single coil guitars just doesn't work for me as an allround axe, also I practically never use a tremolo, so even though the trem on the jag looks really good I think it might be better off with a stoptail bridge.

So I think that even though I would prefer a sunburst finish the Jaguar HH might actually be the perfect christmas gift to myself. I would just have to swap out the pickguard for a brown shell to make it a bit better looking in my opinion.

However, I have a couple of concerns, perhaps someone has the knowledge and time to answer them. No stores around here carries any Jaguar so I can't try it out myself.

1.) The sound. My main guitar right now is a Greg Bennett Ultramatic, which plays and sound wonderful. However, it isn't all that versatile. It has one kind of sound that it does really well, and that's about it. Also, the looks just isn't me. I'd like a guitar that I could wear on stage with more pride 😀

As I said, I play a lot of different styles. But two sounds that is a must-have for me is the classic distorted humbucking powerchord rock sound and a warm but not muddy clean tone. I have a Cyclone II and it's a really nice guitar, but it just can't deliver those tones so it doesn't work as an all around axe for me.

To give an example of what I'm looking for. Here's one of my songs that we recorded last year. It contains both of the sounds that I'm talking about.

http://www.rivermind.se/wm/Wire_Moves_-_Red.mp3

Now, the Greg Bennett is perfect for that. But will the Jag HH be able to do that and more? If it can give me that AND add some of the classic fenderish tones it would be the perfect guitar for me.

2.) The fretboard. Pretty much every guitar I've owned (with the exception of the Cyclone II) has had wide large radius fretboards and thin necks, and I'm comfortable with that since I have large hands. The Jag seems to be the exact opposite of that. That 7.25" radius fretboard is even rounder than the Cyclone. Should I be worried about that? Or is it simply a matter of getting used to it?

Also is the 24" scale length much different from 24 3/4"? I've played LP style guitars all my life and never had a problem with that scale length, so 24" wouldn't hurt me right?

Didn't mean for this post to get this long. Hopefully someone made it to the end 😀

sleeptight

i think you could get them sounds from a normal jag if you used pedals

which is probably a better option in my opinion

quilted

sleep tight said: i think you could get them sounds from a normal jag if you used pedals
which is probably a better option in my opinion

There are pedals which make single coils sound like humbuckers now? 😉

No but seriously, I wish the standard jag pickups could provide the sound I want. I love the sound of them, but it doesn't fit with most of the stuff I do.

However, some people say that the dragster pickups sound like fat single coils, which made me worry a bit. However, with the Jag HH it's a lot easier to switch buckers since I don't have to do any routing. But it's always nice if the stock pups are good enough 😀

MrArkadin

i have an HH and HH baritone for the exact reasons you state - i hate trems, and i prefer humbuckers - but love the Jag feel.

To me the Dragsters are OK, not bad but not stellar either. Maybe a little muddy for some tones. Personally i'm going to swap them out with some Bare Knuckle Crawlers which were designed for Goeff Whitehorn who wanted a humbucker that's good in an LP or a Strat, so i'm hoping to get humbucker tones, but retain a certain Fenderishness to the sound. If you want pure LP get an LP - the body density and bolt on neck is just not going to do it. Due to the fatness of the sound i find the 'choke' switch doesn't really do a lot so i'm thinking of modding it to be a coil-tap to get more tones from it as it's not particularly versatile at the moment. i can't play your sounds at the moment so i can't really say if it gets the tone you want or not.

i always find it funny when people mention things like fretboards, frets, radii, scale length. You know what? i really don't notice or care. i have rosewood and maple fretboards, fat and skinny frets, fat and thin necks, Gibsonesque and Fenderesque radii, and scales from the shortish Jag to the baritone (and bass too). Unless you have particularly big hands (mine are small) then i can't see any problem adapting unless you're really fussy.

PS. i swapped the chrome knobs for proper Jag knobs and it looks much better and like you i want to swap the scratchplate as it can't really be seen at the moment. But brown? Blech!

Fran

Firstly, i like the tune. It reminds me of a handfull of cool bands.

Based on that song it may pull them sounds off. But..

Still, these problems i have faced over the last few years.

I love Jaguars, it is the best looking guitar ever made. Even though it has great sounds especially clean, i can never escape the fact that i am a fairly rocky player and it never quite cuts it sonically.

Here's three things i have tried:

1/ Installed SD single coil size humbuckers in my sunburst standard Jag.

2/ Tried out the HH model.

3/ Tried processors with a stock Jag.

The HH model was a mistake. Firstly the humbuckers were not a patch on the SD's in my sunburst, the neck was not as comfortable and it had no trem. I dont use the trem much but the option is nice.

It was a wasted venture.

Processors what with their EQ and amp modelling possibilities will give you a heavy sound. The guy out of NIN uses Jazzmasters and a Cyclone II and just listen to his sound! BUT, i like the old Marshall-valve/Gibson combination and cannot find a processor that sounds as natural as that.

So my conclusion is buy a Jag you can afford, preferably standard then upgrade the pickups. Dont let the HH sway your decision because it will save you routing because the single coil size buckers will do the job in a standard Jag. Plus you will have a true Fender Jaguar, the tremelo system and bridge is partly what makes it such a unique guitar.

But it will never be a set-neck, mahogany body guitar with them kind of natural warm tones.

Incidently, i have been using a Fender Toronado more lately. Because it does cross over to Gibson territory with its sound and feel but still looks like a Fender and has a strong Jaguar influence.

quilted

someone said: PS. i swapped the chrome knobs for proper Jag knobs and it looks much better and like you i want to swap the scratchplate as it can't really be seen at the moment. But brown? Blech!

I'm certainly not expecting it to sound like an LP. In fact, I don't even have an LP-style guitar around anymore, gave the last one to my dad 😀

I prefer it if it has a tone of its own. I know that Chris Crisci in Appleseed Cast has a Gibson 57 in the neck position on his CIJ Jag, and that one has a special and very lovely tone.

I'm not expecting the stock bridges to be fantastic. But at least they aren't terrible then? They are capable of more than the honky tonk? 😀

Well, I can adapt to most necks, I just spent the evening playing mandolin so 😀

But some necks just feel so right when you pick them up. You know what I mean? And the hand never gets tired.

I find that on my Cyclone I usually reach too far with the fingers to get to the next string or fret. I'm used to a bit more spacing between them. But I'll probably adapt to it better if I play more often.

Yeah, I already have a couple of those knobs in a drawer here. Thought that they will come to use if I get the HH 😀

I actually think that out of the standard pickguard materials, the brown tortoise shell fits nicely with the black jag. I've been thinking about designing my own pattern for it though, but I need to see it in person to come up with something good.

What color/material were you considering?

quilted

someone said: So my conclusion is buy a Jag you can afford, preferably standard then upgrade the pickups.

Thanks man! I'm curious, which bands does it remind you of?

Actually, I don't even own an amp anymore. I've been gigging with a Tonelab SE the past three years, and I have a regular Tonelab in the studio. I sometimes miss the feeling of playing with a good amp, but as for the actual sound on stage and in the studio the tonelab does better than any amp I can afford. It sounds very natural to me.

However, it doesn't hide the real tone of the guitar very well, which I think is a good thing. But it's harder to make a guitar sound much different than it actually sounds.

But sure, I could always put the guts of a Variax into the Jag and get a wide range of sounds. But it just wouldn't feel right to do that to such a sweet and innocent looking guitar 😀

Well, they cost the same where I'll be buying them. So that factor certainly doesn't help.

The tremolo is purely about looks for me as I wouldn't really use it much. The original tremolo looks a lot cooler, but at the same time, the stoptail bridge is more practical and would give it more sustain I guess.

There are certainly more options when it comes to full size buckers.

Oh, I had already ruled out the standard Jag. Now I have to consider it again. Thanks 😉

quilted

Fran said:
The HH model was a mistake. Firstly the humbuckers were not a patch on the SD's in my sunburst, the neck was not as comfortable and it had no trem.

In which way wasn't the neck as comfortable to you?

Do they have the same finish by the way? I'm a glossy neck guy 😀

Fran

Fran said:
The HH model was a mistake. Firstly the humbuckers were not a patch on the SD's in my sunburst, the neck was not as comfortable and it had no trem.

To me the radius seemed flatter than a CIJ neck and the finish had a matt feel to it, a bit like MIM Fenders.

Also, the tremelo system does offer more than tremelo and you can lock it off to make it hardtail. Besides the look it contributes to the sound of the guitar, also the area behind the bridge can be used to create some strange sounds/timbre effects. Brian Molko out of Placebo uses that area to great effect.

MrArkadin

quilted said:
In which way wasn't the neck as comfortable to you?
Do they have the same finish by the way? I'm a glossy neck guy 😀

Dunno about other Jags but my HH is in the glossy camp, but again i couldn't give a monkey's - i have all different finishes to my guitars. i also play a classical and going from flat superwide neck to curvy thin small Jag neck gives me no probs.

i have a Variax, but i doubt you'd fit the guts in the slimness that is the Jag 😆

Pickguard colour has yet to be decided - even the three-ply with just a white strip round the edge on my baritone helps a lot - brown on black, not my fave combination (don't really like brown much as a colour anyway - it's always a bit pooey).

jellybelly

Yo dude, my brother had a similar conundrum: he has a jag HH and it sounds great (they also used to do a sunburst with white guard version if you dont like the idea of all black). The pickups are potentially the worst thing about it: I've convinced my pro to get a set of fender wide-range (from the tele deluxe) for his: they will be a LOT better get em cheap on http://www.guitarpartsresource.com: I get stuff shipped to the UK and even after postage and customs charges its loads cheaper). Otherwise its a really cool guitar!

PS I have a black jazzmaster with a RED tortoise scratchplate, same as thurston's new main guitar. Its hot. Do that.

Fran

Maybe my opinions are biased because i owned standard Jags beforehand. But i do believe the classic Fender Jaguar is not an HH model. I also saw no benefits from the TOM or buckers.

The body is also lighter in weight and does'nt feel as solid, i dont know what it is made from (poplar?) but standard Jags are alder.

This likeness is about as similar as wanting a Mustang and buying a Duo Sonic, the Duos body is the same and the electronics are almost the same but it is'nt a Mustang.

Pedro

I'll just chip in to say the radius of the HH is NOT 7.25". All the spec sheets say that, but it aint right. The radius is larger, I think something like 9.5". I absolutely promise it is flatter than 7.25 - I noticed the difference from my strat (which is 7.25) and have heard the same from other HH owners.

Personally, I don't like the flatter radius, and can't stand the thick glossy plasticy laquer. Each to their own, but for me it makes it less enjoyable to play. In essence the HH is not a bad axe, the TOM bridge is good and it stays in tune all day and night, and I like the sound from the neck pup. But nearly a year of owning it later, and I tend to leave it in its case and use my (squier) strat. For all the knobs and switches I didn't find it that versatile, and it just doesn't feel 'alive' like the strat does when you play.

But but but... I'm not sorry I bought it, it has a different sound because of the humbuckers and is a solid reliable guitar for gigging. The bridge pickup isn't great, and if you want warm from it you'll have to get a replacement.

At the end of the day, personal preferences are funny old things. You need to have a play on one and see if it's got the sound you're looking for

FIREBOT

OK... I bought one of these about three years ago on a trip to Japan. All of the Jag-snobery aside (I also have an AVRI too, and have owned a real '64 before, so I can appreciate the stock Jag a lot, but c'mon guys, relax a bit. Moses didn't carry the first Jag down from the mount...), its a great starting point if you like offset Fenders, but need a humbucker. I changed the pickups on mine to Gibsons (500T and 496R) because I had an Explorer that I really liked the sound of, but hated banging into anything and everything in the room with allow its points and angles. I matched the pots and simplified the swithces (just a simple 3-way), and low and behold, despite all of the cited reasons for this being impossible (body wood, bolt on neck... Etc...), it sounds virtually indistinguishable from my explored clean. Through any distorting or color it is absolutely indistinguishable. The body wood is alder (for the record), and the neck radius is about 9.5, with a gloss finish. The Japanese fit and finish is excellent!

Lou

Matt said: No.

I swear I was just thinking the same think

Fran

FIREBOT said: Moses didn't carry the first Jag down from the mount

Are you sure?

I'm pleased you could not distinguish any differences, well done.

Sure the guitar is okay, but it is also very disappointing. They dont come cheap and to be honest i expected much much more. On the subject of Fenders with humbuckers the Toronado delivers everything the HH Jag did'nt at a considerably smaller cost.

quilted

Matt said: If you put brown tort on a jag you need to die a slow, greasy, smelly, horrible death under naked Crisco-smeared Rosie O'Donnel's loins.

So I guess you want Fender to die as well then?

quilted

Many thanks to Pedro and Firebot for the input!

I think I will order a Jag HH early next month after the dental bills are covered 😀 The way I see it, the standard Jag will probably be around for a long time, while the HH might go away soon (if you don't order it from Japan). So it might be better to try them out in that order. If the HH doesn't do it for me, I might give the standard Jag a try.

Knowing myself, I will probably end up with both of them in the end 😁

FIREBOT

... Re-reading my post last night, to be fair I must add that if the stock guitar has any shortcomings, they all concern the electronics. I wanted to mimic my Explorer with my pick-up mods, but I was also less than thrilled with the dragsters. The stock pots and switches are a bit crappy too. If you plan to change the pick-ups, its a better notion. Its worth the extra pennies to change out pots, and switches on it while you have it apart.

The hardware is all decent quality Japanese Gotoh. The tuners are the same as used on the AVRI.