Songwriting Help

AshleyNirvana

It's a generic idea for a topic, but that's no biggie! I keep trying to write songs and it just isn't working, but it's something I want to do.

When writing guitar parts, several things are happening. I'll come up with something that sounds good then I can't develop it into anything more, like something that goes with it. I have something which I'd like to use for verses, but then I can't think of anything that fits in to make a chorus.

Part of this problem is I'm just randomly playing bar chords and chords, sliding them and things. I don't know any specific chord progressions which work well, and I don't want it just be dull chord changes. Think of something like Very Ape - it sounds really good, yet it's nothing complicated. I want to be able to come up with things that don't sound out of place. That song'c chorus sounds really good, and it's all the same bar chord.

I'm also having trouble thinking of lyrics. I'm going to write the guitar parts first then come up with lyrics to go with them, but I'm struggling to come up with anything good. Sometimes I can't come up with how the lyrics will sound in terms of fitting them in with the tune, but also I can't think of anything good to say. It's all 'I love her, she doesn't know it' crap, because it's all I can think of, and it sounds ####.

AnotherTool

I used to be like this years ago, i'm sure every songwriter has been like it.

The way i got over it was, instead of trying to write say, one guitar intro, a verse, and then write the lyrics for it, i started writing the lyrics first.

Write a verse, by sitting there and singing it, if you don't know what words to sing, then pick words with the same syllables that fit, then you can just change them later.

Once you have a verse of words you can sing (no matter how messed up it is), build chords around it, then go for the chorus lyrics or bridge whatever.

nirvana23freak

i always write the guitar first. im not sure how to really help you with not being able to make chorus's. it just kinda happens with me.

XxMangoxX

I start out with riff first, like Freak, and then just mold it into a song.

The lyrics though are hard/yet easy at the same time.

Nowadays the more popular bands are writing about being the generations next "an hero", or writing nothing but dance songs, or love songs, or using sex in their lyrics to sell albums.

Basically just write about absolutely nothing. It's "meaning" will come to you at a later time. Write a song for you and nobody else, if other people like it, then it's an additional plus.

I've written a song about the ocean and stars, obscure to the T, but I love it and that's all that matters to me. If a person doesn't have confidence in their own songs, who else will. If you "sell out" and start following the "popular crowd" then when you rise, their will be a false sense of achievement.

Thats my personal take on it. 😉

AshleyNirvana

Thanks all of you, I'll try to write some songs when I get the chance to.

Mango, I like what you said, and I agree. One of the reasons I want to start a band today is that I hate what music has become and want to try and influence more people to play rock/punk rock (Nirvana!!) again. It's up to them if they don't want to, but it would be nice to have a bunch of local bands playing music that's not R'n'B or whatever.

One thing I like about Nirvana songs is how the lyrics are random at times, but somehow they don't seem like they've been written because there's nothing else to put, if that makes sense.

JamesJ

just play around with riffs you like to play, change little things about them, see what works out best, then try to fit em together. its not like you have to be, i started and point a, got to point b, and im gonna end at point c

Cody_Zairah

when i started writing, i would alternate between two chords and then add in little notes, i thought of it like two seperate melodies that i just happened to be able to play at once. i'd start with the two chords and hear the notes i wanted in their in my head, find them, and find a way to throw it all together. though thats works better with things like e and a rather than bar chords. personally i can only, to this day, write pieces at a time because i find once i get into that creative spark that started getting me to write whatever im working on in the first place, i start trying too hard to find something to just play with it, and i start getting away from the original sound or idea.

as for lyrics.. i write constantly, nothing in particular, rarely am i writting both music and lyrics together. if i have something to say, then i write it. often times, i'll play something that will convey the message or attitude to fill in the blanks later. as for having the music first, you can always pull a cobain and just hum what you wanna hear. worry about the sounds and notes your playing and humming/singing, you can always add/change lyrics later.

thems my two cents, not worth much, but it helps if all ya need is a few pennies.

nirvana23freak

10 bucks says ashely doesnt even like nirvana in like a year. or he will drift away from it and barely listen to it. but i total argree with the "it'd be better to see more nirvana-like bands playing than the #### there is today."

XxMangoxX

nirvana23freak said: "it'd be better to see more nirvana-like bands playing than the #### there is today."

Then you'd have more bands like Pagoda, who seem like nothing more than a Nirvana rip-off, rather than more sincere bands doing their own thing and making good music.

nirvana23freak

i didnt say nirvana rips i said -like. that doesnt mean in sound at all necessarily. it could be in attitude in the way they work

Blindingsun

back when i was 16 i would have killed anyone who told me when i'm 27 i'd listen to ANY of the stuff i like now.. you have to listen to everything to see the bigger picture..there's more music out there than what we're spoon fed.

as curt and dave and krist once said

c : music comes first,.lyrics are secondary

D : like my sharona? what the hell is my sharona?

k : yeah

D : but it changed my life

best thing to do is just jam.. and then if u find a progression that sounds cool.. remember it then come back to it later and try and add bits.. i've never written a whole song in 1 go..

AnotherTool

He didn't mean that he wrote the music to every song first, he meant that the music is more important than the lyrics.

Blindingsun

Another Tool said: He didn't mean that he wrote the music to every song first, he meant that the music is more important than the lyrics.

no #### sherlock

which is the same as saying.. i write the music first..cos he did

nirvana23freak

Another Tool said: He didn't mean that he wrote the music to every song first, he meant that the music is more important than the lyrics.

it absolutely is not the same. i bet cobain had pages of lyrics to fill hundreds of more songs than nirvana ever made. and im sure he wrote songs to go with the lyrics. but he cared more about the music the lyrics went with rather than the lyrics themself. thinking music first lyrics second is in terms of how they were writin is kinda like capitalization is the difference between i helped my uncle Jack off a horse and i helped my uncle jack off a horse, two totally different things.

tragictravisty

lyrics are secondary on most modern music, except singer-songwriter types. while i care about music more than lyrics, they cant be wanky.

SmutVendetta

tragictravisty said: lyrics are secondary on most modern music, except singer-songwriter types. while i care about music more than lyrics, they cant be wanky.

He probably did. I think what he did was filled notebooks full of lyrics and took segments of each and after they got the music down he put them in accordingly. Even so, I'd still consider the music was made first because I don't think he came up with a way to sing the song and then wrote the music to it. What I mean is, (not because I think you, who is reading this is too dumb to get what I'm saying, I just want to clarify what I mean because I did a bad job explaining it) like I've got a lot of stuff written, but I don't have a melody for the lyrics, until after I write the music, and I don't even write the music for the song, I write it because it sounds good, and then later on I may think, "these would go good with this song." And then it develops from there. In that case I'd say the music was still written first.

Agree'd I can't count how many songs I liked until I realized the lyrics, it just ruined it for me 'cos they were so incredibly lame. Lame lyrics spoil the sauce (music) that makes them worth listening to in the first place.

phaeton

ive tried and its almost impossible to write lyrics first then a tune to go around it, you need a tune first as a basis, the lyrics have to fit that.

it never seems as though vocals need as cyclic tune to work, most singers seem to bob vocals tunes around all over the place.

it might be an idea to look into basic blues stuff, like a call and response tune and lyrics that are like:

guitar 1

lyrics 1 +guitar 1

guitar 1

lyrics 2 +guitar 1

guitar 1

lyrics 1 +guitar 1

lyrics 3 +guitar 2

chorus

often a chorus can be like 3 chords just to fill in the sound and the chorus words are one line repeated 4 times.

being confident in lyrics can be hard, ive written quite a few lyrics that are probably really good but i cant sing them with any appriciable ability so they sound #### (ive proved this by trying lyrics by someone else that i think are great cause of the way they are sung and they come out crap when done by me).

bascially understand the solid mathematics in a song structure and keep things simple and organised, then get good.

feedbackismyfriend

Try writing the verses in barre chords like you normally do (if I read correctly) and then play the same thing in power chords for the chorus. You can also mix up the strumming patterns to make things sound more unique (arpeggios are always cool too). Here's a couple of examples:

Verse:

e|77777777|55555555|33333333|

b|77777777|55555555|33333333|

g|88888888|66666666|44444444|

d|99999999|77777777|55555555|

a|99999999|77777777|55555555|

e|77777777|55555555|33333333|

v^v^v^v^ v^v^v^v^ v^v^v^v^

Chorus:

e|----------|---------|----------|

b|----------|---------|----------|

g|----------|---------|----------|

d|----------|---------|----------|

a|99--99--|77--77--|55--55--|

e|77--77--|55--55--|33--33--|

v^ v^ v^ v^ v^ v^

Verse:

e|-----7-|-----5-|-----3-|

b|-----7-|-----5-|-----3-|

g|-----7-|-----5-|-----3-|

d|-----9-|-----7-|-----5-|

a|--9----|--7----|--5----|

e|7------|5------|3------|

v v v v v v v v v

Chorus:

e|--------|---------|--------|

b|--------|---------|--------|

g|--------|---------|--------|

d|--------|---------|--------|

a|999999|777777|555555|

e|777777|555555|333333|

v^v^v^ v^v^v^ v^v^v^

v=downstroke

^=upstroke

One way to make this sound really cool is to play the verses clean (or with a really trippy effect like a phaser) and then kick on your distortion for the chorus.