Intonation Frustration!

DANN

Hello everyone

This is my first post! I recently bought a '93 Jap Jag and it's beautiful. It hadn't been played for a few years so I took it to my localest guitar shop and had them set it up for me, lovely.

The intonation is WAY out. I've tried to do it myself because I just assumed they didn't stretch the strings enough... At the twelfth fret it's always a little too high. I've adjusted the saddle to it's lowest point, even with the bridge rocked over towards the F plate and it's still too high! I've tried different tuners, and I'm completely stuck. Could it be the neck? It's strung with 10s, do I need a higher gauge? Or do I need to start cutting bits of the saddles off and messing about with an assay whatever that is?

Please help, I REALLY want to play this guitar without it sounding like a joke.

Thanks!

phreed

First of all, welcome to the forum and congrats on picking up a Jag!

From what I understand, it sounds like you were lowering the saddle (up and down). Adjusting saddle height is more of an action parameter while moving the saddle front to back is what alters the intonation.

However, I might be totally misunderstanding you. You mentioned intonation at the beginning of your post so I'm assuming that by it being "high at the twelfth fret" you mean that the note is "sharp," but by being high at the twelfth fret you also could have meant that the action is too high. Could you clarify which you're trying to work out?!

Earth

I'm certain he means intonation.

DANN

Ah, sorry.

I meant that I was moving the saddle backwards and forwards, or higher and lower in pitch. And aye, it's too sharp at the twelfth fret!

Thanks buddies!

AngryHatter

Betcha the neck needs a shim or two.

Or it may be "loose" in the pocket.

Nut is really poorly cut?...saddles maybe worn too deep?

So if I understand correctly with the saddle all the way back - away from the neck, it is still sharp?

DANN

Ah the nut, maybe!

You're right, the 12th fret is too sharp with the saddles away from the neck.

The nut was replaced at the shop as the last one was broke! The saddles look like they've been cut into, to make the strings behave.

Please please please, what can I do to make it right? It's breaking my heart!

Earth

Intonation is a funny thing, you can NEVER get it perfect. The best any of us can hope for is as close as possible.

I always had trouble intonating Jag bridges, they just wouldn't do it. Swapped to tuneomatics, problem gone.

paltic

liking the title of this thread...it's got a pretty ring to it...hmmm "intonation frustration"

DANN

Earth said:
Intonation is a funny thing, you can NEVER get it perfect. The best any of us can hope for is as close as possible.
I always had trouble intonating Jag bridges, they just wouldn't do it. Swapped to tuneomatics, problem gone.

So I guess a tune o matic would just slot straight in? There are some on ebay, dirt cheap. Is it worth being a cheapskate at this point or is it time to change my ways? I'm part Scotsman you know...

I may well snap the guitar in half and put the splinters in somebody's bed.

DANN

With a tune o matic, would the tremolo cease to be? Good god...

phreed

Pretty sure the TOM would screw the vibrato.

Loving the "inner depths of new jag hell." haha

Alex

How heavy strings are you using? Does the problem exist on all strings are are some worse than others?

DANN

The strings are 10s and they're pretty buzzy, another kettle of pish entirely...

The intonation problem is mainly just on the A, G and B strings, thankyou.

Regarding the TOM bridge (I found one on a scuzzy old SG copy!), I can't get the Jag bridge posts out, and I don't think I want to! They look so snug...

I can't have a hardtail, tremolos are so much fun... I wonder if I could use the Jag posts and put a threaded screw thing in there and have that TOM rockin. Has anyone tried this? Dare me to try? The advantage of going for it would be that you can get a Gotoh wide TOM to give more scope on the intonation. Just seems that if the bridge were a bit further towards the tail there'd be no problem at all.

AngryHatter

Mine is a MIM which comes with a TOM and interestingly enough mine also sports a MIA trem plate...the snap in arm, not the screw in.

TOM bridges and trems are not mutually exclusive.

If the saddles are really cut deeply...replace them.

You do get what you pay for, so you may end up at a techs place anyway.

Earth

The TOM wont effect the trem in any way shape or form! I have one on my jag, thurston has one on his JZ and Mascis has one on his. The later two are heavy trem users.

You need a specific TOM, the "Nashville" style. Then you wrap aluminum foil around the TOM posts,insert them straight into the existing fender ones, then put the TOM on, simple.

You will have to file the grooves in the TOM saddles a little deeper using a needle file/file set.

I used one file and managed to do all six!

Dont even bother taking the existing thimbles out, you need them to do the above.

And again, to do the above, you need the "nashville TOM".

DANN

Hey, thanks Earth. That's the TOM I was gonna go for, after seeing that it's nice and wide. I'll be ordering tomorrow, hopefully that'll sort it out and get me out of this bloody nightmare. Imagine getting your first Jaguar and not being able to play it for weeks! Well, without wincing when you hit more than two strings...

The one I got's Candy Apple, after taking the scratchplate off I thought it'd be so cool to have one with all the routing beneath the pickups, just the sparkly red body and all that chrome...

Who's Thurston Moore?

har har

Earth

sonic youth. 😁

paltic

Earth said:
sonic youth. 😁

😁

DANN

Sonic Youth. What's that?

Well, just to let everyone know I've put the TOM on the Jag and it's pretty much fine! Sounds just out-of-tune enough to make me sound cool!

I haven't wrapped the posts yet as I've been having too much fun to take the strings off again.

Thanks everyone, for all your crazy ideas and to Earth for typing in the infernal method, woah

Now I'm going to wash some brains with me old ghost notes oh yeah!

foxyloxy

DANN said:
Sonic Youth. What's that?
Well, just to let everyone know I've put the TOM on the Jag and it's pretty much fine! Sounds just out-of-tune enough to make me sound cool!
I haven't wrapped the posts yet as I've been having too much fun to take the strings off again.
Thanks everyone, for all your crazy ideas and to Earth for typing in the infernal method, woah
Now I'm going to wash some brains with me old ghost notes oh yeah!

are you for real? 😕

"Sonic Youth is an American rock band from New York City, formed in 1981. The current lineup consists of Thurston Moore (vocals and guitar), Kim Gordon (vocals, bass, guitar), Lee Ranaldo (vocals and guitar), Steve Shelley (drums), Mark Ibold (bass, guitar)

In their early career, Sonic Youth was associated with the No Wave art and music scene in New York City. Part of the first wave of American noise rock groups, the band carried out their interpretation of the hardcore punk ethos throughout the evolving American underground that focused more on the DIY ethic of the genre rather than its specific sound. As a result, some[who?] consider Sonic Youth as pivotal in the rise of the alternative rock and indie rock movements. The band has experienced success and critical acclaim throughout the last three decades, continuing into the new millennium, including signing to major label DGC in 1990, and headlining the 1995 Lollapalooza festival.

Sonic Youth have expressed a wide variety of influences, ranging from the influential protopunk musician Patti Smith to composer John Cage. The band has been praised for having "redefined what rock guitar could do", using a wide variety of unorthodox guitar tunings, and preparing guitars with objects like drumsticks and screwdrivers to alter the instruments' timbre."

onw of the best band of all time IMO!