Why a TOM on a mustang?

robertoriginal

i understand folks putting a tune o matic on a jaguar or jazzmaster. it prevents string jumping which can be a common occurrence if a proper setup has not been preformed.

but why on a mustang? i have never understood this. It can't possibly be for the reason of string jumping. Is it just something you saw and thought it was a good mod or is there another reason for it?

please explain.

KurtNolan

robert(original) said:
i understand folks putting a tune o matic on a jaguar or jazzmaster. it prevents string jumping which can be a common occurrence if a proper setup has not been preformed.
but why on a mustang? i have never understood this. It can't possibly be for the reason of string jumping. Is it just something you saw and thought it was a good mod or is there another reason for it?
please explain.

I think it may be because the mustang bridges is floating and it moves sometimes, which can knock it out of tune.

redman1401

Kurt Nolan said:
I think it may be because the mustang bridges is floating and it moves sometimes, which can knock it out of tune.

Its all personal preference, I never use the trem so i have it locked down, and for me the TOM has better tuning stability and is more comfortable to palm mute to me.

Marlonmm

I prefer the narrow string spacing of TOM.

The flatter radius of TOM makes the B and E strings higher on fretboard which prevents them from choking during bends.

Again, it's a matter of preference.

robertoriginal

indeed you would have the b and e string slightly high becuz of the 9.5 radius or so of the bridge which could be helpful for bends.

Longywales

Its alot easier to raise the bridge when adjusting action....I believe you have to detune to raise it on a standard Mustang bridge or something? I changed mine on my J-stangs because it was alot easier to set up the guitar...and the standard bridge looks quite ugly in comparison to the TOM.....I also believe some people do it just because Cobain did it haha

robertoriginal

why would it be easier? either bridge will raise your pitch significantly thus the need to detune to be back in tune.

how would it be easier to setup the guitar? they are both fix'd radius bridges with two posts to ajust the height.

and why in the world would the stock bridge look ugly to you? its stock, its supposed to be there. aesthetically it fits the guitar, and funtionally it fits the guitar better. thats just fact.

the only thing you said that makes any sense is that some people did it becuz cobain did it.

so far the only real reason i have seen that would make sense is if you are having problems with choking out on the high-e when you are bending.

Longywales

By easier i meant you dont need an allen key, on my TOM i can just use a Philips screw driver, its so much quicker(easier).... Oh and Its just personal taste, i think the TOM looks much better than the Mustang standard

No need to get arsey with me, I wasnt arguing with you just giving you possible reasons, if you didnt want to hear peoples opinions then i dont see why you opened up the thread.

redman1401

Just because its stock does NOT make it a fact that its better, which is why many people either tape the posts or completely change it out, personally i like the look of the TOM better, and again, makes plam muting more comfortable, also to me it has better tuning stability than the stock one.

robertoriginal

the taping of the posts for tuning stability has never made any sense to me. i tried it for a while, but i know i ended up taking the tape off a few years ago.

honestly i just set the thing up. and its never caused me any problems, not on my jag-stang nor on my mustang(s) granted i don't have any of them anymore.

and yea, it is alot easier to grab a flat head screw driver than rumage around a parts box for the right sized allen head.

as far as using the trem and tuning stability with a TOM im not convinced mainly due to the wound strings wanting to catch just slighting on the bridge.

thats not to say that it can work out just fine, i just think that the rounded stock bridge saddles would work out better.

redman1401

robert(original) said:
the taping of the posts for tuning stability has never made any sense to me. i tried it for a while, but i know i ended up taking the tape off a few years ago.
honestly i just set the thing up. and its never caused me any problems, not on my jag-stang nor on my mustang(s) granted i don't have any of them anymore.
and yea, it is alot easier to grab a flat head screw driver than rumage around a parts box for the right sized allen head.
as far as using the trem and tuning stability with a TOM im not convinced mainly due to the wound strings wanting to catch just slighting on the bridge.
thats not to say that it can work out just fine, i just think that the rounded stock bridge saddles would work out better.

I know from my experience that even with the bridge bolted down i still had tuning stability problems with the standard bridge, yet none with the TOM. and on mine the wound strings never caught on my TOMs, plus for me its more comfortable to palm mute with the TOM instead of the original.

robertoriginal

if you have the vibrato locked down then did you have the posts taped off as well?(on the mustang bridge)

perhaps if you didn't have them taped then while palm muting you were able to push the bridge back or forth with the force of your hand, hence the tuning issues.

redman1401

robert(original) said:
if you have the vibrato locked down then did you have the posts taped off as well?(on the mustang bridge)
perhaps if you didn't have them taped then while palm muting you were able to push the bridge back or forth with the force of your hand, hence the tuning issues.

nope i had them taped, the TOM puts more tension so it helps keep it tight.

robertoriginal

how do you figure the tom puts more tension on the strings? i would like to hear this.

redman1401

Because if you have the tom like i do, not routed so it stays at one height and is un adjustable, and you shim the neck, it gives it a sharper angle from the bridge to nut, and with having the trem bolted flat to the plate, it gives more of a brake angle from the bridge to the top of the tom. the sharper angles put more tension.

robertoriginal

ok, no. from nut to bridge. no. im sorry, no. the physics of this do not add up one bit. i really am trying to understand where you are comming from, but its just not plausible. the greater break angle DOES NOT increase the tension or feel of the strings. the longer the scale vs the string gauge DOES control the tension of the strings. unless we have very different ideas of what tension is. you sir, are wrong.

HNB

Yeah sharper break angle using a TOM doesn't increase tension. That is mostly string gauge and scale length. (Like how upping or dropping string gauge can require truss rod adjustment because of tension change.)

I don't mind TOM's. I have one on my purple Mascis because it came that way. I have added them to a few guitars. I don't like shimming my necks though and I like low action, so I haven't used them in awhile. Jamming some scrap cardboard credit cards, or wood shavings just doesn't appeal to me. I would rather find a bridge equivalent that doesn't need to be shimmed like a modified Mustang bridge, Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge, Mastery, etc.

While personal tastes and aesthetics play a big role in any guitar mod, I think many would be fibbing just a little if they didn't admit a certain famous grunge guitarist famous for using Mustangs modded with TOM's didn't have anything to do with it. (Not all of course, but quite a few.)

Of course there are the Gibson crossover crowd who like the strings being spaced closer together from using Gibsons and are looking for that.

redman1401

break angles actually do increase tension, its not just string gauge because i've used the same guage since i bought the guitar and it has tighter strings with the TOM than it does with the stock bridge. take a piece of string, tighten it so its not slack, push up in the middle and you'll have more tension on either side, thats because its no longer in a straight line so you lose more slack, thats increasing tension. and you're talking about neck tension, im talking about string tension.

HNB

redman1401 said:
break angles actually do increase tension, its not just string gauge because i've used the same guage since i bought the guitar and it has tighter strings with the TOM than it does with the stock bridge. take a piece of string, tighten it so its not slack, push up in the middle and you'll have more tension on either side, thats because its no longer in a straight line so you lose more slack, thats increasing tension. and you're talking about neck tension, im talking about string tension.

http://030be21.netsolhost.com/WordPress/2011/11/01/the-curious-break-angle/

Some physics for you about break angle and tension.

Maybe you mean compliance instead of tension?

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-633923.html

redman1401

HNB said:
http://030be21.netsolhost.com/WordPress/2011/11/01/the-curious-break-angle/

Some physics for you about break angle and tension.

Maybe you mean compliance instead of tension?

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-633923.html

No i mean tention, when using a TOM that the body isn't routed for, like mine, angling the neck works the same as raising the bridge on the standard, when you raise the bridge the strings get tenser which is why they go sharp, or why when a guitar is set up and you pull back on the neck, the note goes sharp, with the TOM not being routed,therefore not being adjustable, you shim the neck, sharpen the angle and raise the pitch, which is exactly why with the TOM and same guage string as i've always used, the strings are about as tense as they are on a strat, which is more than the standard mustang considering i'm not doing the through-under string feed, i have it feeding directly straight through.

What hes talking about in that article is the break angle from the tailpiece to the bridge, i'm talking about the break angle from the bridge to the nut, which, when you have the neck shimmed and angled, is more than if the neck were straight.