Jump to content

Why a TOM on a mustang?


Recommended Posts

i understand folks putting a tune o matic on a jaguar or jazzmaster. it prevents string jumping which can be a common occurrence if a proper setup has not been preformed.

  but why on a mustang? i have never understood this.  It can't possibly be for the reason of string jumping.  Is it just something you saw and thought it was a good mod or is there another reason for it?

please explain. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i understand folks putting a tune o matic on a jaguar or jazzmaster. it prevents string jumping which can be a common occurrence if a proper setup has not been preformed.

  but why on a mustang? i have never understood this.  It can't possibly be for the reason of string jumping.  Is it just something you saw and thought it was a good mod or is there another reason for it?

please explain. 

I think it may be because the mustang bridges is floating and it moves sometimes, which can knock it out of tune.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its alot easier to raise the bridge when adjusting action....I believe you have to detune to raise it on a standard Mustang bridge or something? I changed mine on my J-stangs because it was alot easier to set up the guitar...and the standard bridge looks quite ugly in comparison to the TOM.....I also believe some people  do it just because Cobain did it haha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why would it be easier? either bridge will raise your pitch significantly thus the need to detune to be back in tune.

how would it be easier to setup the guitar? they are both fix'd radius bridges with two posts to ajust the height.

 and why in the world would the stock bridge look ugly to you? its stock, its supposed to be there. aesthetically it fits the guitar, and funtionally it fits the guitar better. thats just fact.

  the only thing you said that makes any sense is that some people did it becuz cobain did it.

  so far the only real reason i have seen that would make sense is if you are having problems with choking out on the high-e when you are bending.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By easier i meant you dont need an allen key, on my TOM i can just use a Philips screw driver, its so much quicker(easier).... Oh and Its just personal taste, i think the TOM looks much better than the Mustang standard

 

No need to get arsey with me, I wasnt arguing with you just giving you possible reasons, if you didnt want to hear peoples opinions then i dont see why you opened up the thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just because its stock does NOT make it a fact that its better, which is why many people either tape the posts or completely change it out, personally i like the look of the TOM better, and again, makes plam muting more comfortable, also to me it has better tuning stability than the stock one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the taping of the posts for tuning stability has never made any sense to me. i tried it for a while, but i know i ended up taking the tape off a few years ago.

  honestly i just set the thing up. and its never caused me any problems, not on my jag-stang nor on my mustang(s) granted i don't have any of them anymore.

  and yea, it is alot easier to grab a flat head screw driver than rumage around a parts box for the right sized allen head.

as far as using the trem and tuning stability with a TOM im not convinced mainly due to the wound strings wanting to catch just slighting on the bridge.

thats not to say that it can work out just fine, i just think that the rounded stock bridge saddles would work out better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the taping of the posts for tuning stability has never made any sense to me. i tried it for a while, but i know i ended up taking the tape off a few years ago.

  honestly i just set the thing up. and its never caused me any problems, not on my jag-stang nor on my mustang(s) granted i don't have any of them anymore.

  and yea, it is alot easier to grab a flat head screw driver than rumage around a parts box for the right sized allen head.

as far as using the trem and tuning stability with a TOM im not convinced mainly due to the wound strings wanting to catch just slighting on the bridge.

thats not to say that it can work out just fine, i just think that the rounded stock bridge saddles would work out better.

I know from my experience that even with the bridge bolted down i still had tuning stability problems with the standard bridge, yet none with the TOM. and on mine the wound strings never caught on my TOMs, plus for me its more comfortable to palm mute with the TOM instead of the original.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if you have the vibrato locked down then did you have the posts taped off as well?(on the mustang bridge)

  perhaps if you didn't have them taped then while palm muting you were able to push the bridge back or forth with the force of your hand, hence the tuning issues.

nope i had them taped, the TOM puts more tension so it helps keep it tight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because if you have the tom like i do, not routed so it stays at one height and is un adjustable, and you shim the neck, it gives it a sharper angle from the bridge to nut, and with having the trem bolted flat to the plate, it gives more of a brake angle from the bridge to the top of the tom. the sharper angles put more tension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, no. from nut to bridge. no. im sorry, no. the physics of this do not add up one bit. i really am trying to understand where you are comming from, but its just not plausible. the greater break angle DOES NOT increase the tension or feel of the strings. the longer the scale vs the string gauge DOES control the tension of the strings.  unless we have very different ideas of what tension is. you sir, are wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah sharper break angle using a TOM doesn't increase tension. That is mostly string gauge and scale length. (Like how upping or dropping string gauge can require truss rod adjustment because of tension change.)

 

I don't mind TOM's. I have one on my purple Mascis because it came that way. I have added them to a few guitars. I don't like shimming my necks though and I like low action, so I haven't used them in awhile. Jamming some scrap cardboard  credit cards, or wood shavings just doesn't appeal to me. I would rather find a bridge equivalent that doesn't need to be shimmed like a modified Mustang bridge, Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge, Mastery, etc.

 

While personal tastes and aesthetics play a big role in any guitar mod, I think many would be fibbing just a little if they didn't admit a certain famous grunge guitarist famous for using Mustangs modded with TOM's didn't have anything to do with it. (Not all of course, but quite a few.)

 

Of course there are the Gibson crossover crowd who like the strings being spaced closer together from using Gibsons and are looking for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

break angles actually do increase tension, its not just string gauge because i've used the same guage since i bought the guitar and it has tighter strings with the TOM than it does with the stock bridge. take a piece of string, tighten it so its not slack, push up in the middle and you'll have more tension on either side, thats because its no longer in a straight line so you lose more slack, thats increasing tension. and you're talking about neck tension, im talking about string tension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

break angles actually do increase tension, its not just string gauge because i've used the same guage since i bought the guitar and it has tighter strings with the TOM than it does with the stock bridge. take a piece of string, tighten it so its not slack, push up in the middle and you'll have more tension on either side, thats because its no longer in a straight line so you lose more slack, thats increasing tension. and you're talking about neck tension, im talking about string tension.

 

http://030be21.netsolhost.com/WordPress/2011/11/01/the-curious-break-angle/

 

Some physics for you about break angle and tension.

 

Maybe you mean compliance instead of tension?

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-633923.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://030be21.netsolhost.com/WordPress/2011/11/01/the-curious-break-angle/

 

Some physics for you about break angle and tension.

 

Maybe you mean compliance instead of tension?

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-633923.html

No i mean tention, when using a TOM that the body isn't routed for, like mine, angling the neck works the same as raising the bridge on the standard, when you raise the bridge the strings get tenser which is why they go sharp, or why when a guitar is set up and you pull back on the neck, the note goes sharp, with the TOM not being routed,therefore not being adjustable, you shim the neck, sharpen the angle and raise the pitch, which is exactly why with the TOM and same guage string as i've always used, the strings are about as tense as they are on a strat, which is more than the standard mustang considering i'm not doing the through-under string feed, i have it feeding directly straight through.

 

What hes talking about in that article is the break angle from the tailpiece to the bridge, i'm talking about the break angle from the bridge to the nut, which, when you have the neck shimmed and angled, is more than if the neck were straight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shimming the neck makes the neck more parallel to the strings. You are still tuning them to the same tension to have them in tune. Raise your action to max... Then lower it... Notice you don't need to adjust your truss rod? This is because the tension hasn't changed. Just the neck angle. Parallel is parallel. Now change the string gauge one way or another. Heavier gauge strings have more tension when tuning to a given note than thinner ones. This is why you often have to adjust the truss rod to work with the different tension. Changing bridges or shimming a neck doesn't impact tension. It does impact action.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shimming the neck makes the neck more parallel to the strings. You are still tuning them to the same tension to have them in tune. Raise your action to max... Then lower it... Notice you don't need to adjust your truss rod? This is because the tension hasn't changed. Just the neck angle. Parallel is parallel. Now change the string gauge one way or another. Heavier gauge strings have more tension when tuning to a given note than thinner ones. This is why you often have to adjust the truss rod to work with the different tension. Changing bridges or shimming a neck doesn't impact tension. It does impact action.

I know what shimming the neck does, it also changes the angle from the bridge to the nut, i've done it to a few of my guitars, the overall tension doesnt change from say 180 lbs of force to 250 lbs of force it does however effect the tension on the string as far as tuning because when the neck is shimmed and angled, the string has farther to travel due to the downward angle, which is why when its tuned, you have less windings around the post, unless you have the neck that way to start and account the trimming of the string to that length.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have given you multiple articles with mathematical and physics information along with pictures and documentation on how the angle of the strings past the nut and bridge do not affect tension of the strings. The pitch the string is tuned to and gauge of the string do. Break angle does impact compliance though.

 

You are welcome to continue to say TOMs increase string tension more than other bridges. I am not going to continue arguing this. Enjoy your tenser TOM bridge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the only thing you could possibly mean is compliance and the feeling would be nominal. the tension on the low e-string will be tighter if its tuned to 440 standard e, than if its dropped down to d. that is tension. you can feel it, it will feel looser.

   The bridge will not change the tension. period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...