guitar for a beginner?

Robbmonster

Robbmonster said: Having said that, I seem to be quite monogomas (sp) toward Fender. Weird...

Well, that may be where the Jagmaster comes in. Short scale, and twin humbucking pickups, not a single-coil in sight.

I remeber someone saying they sound somewhere between a Les Paul and a Strat. Dunno about that myself, but seriously, the Jagmaster could be the ideal guitar for you 😀

recommended viewing:

and then

(but only if you are a Nirvana fan)

tragictravisty

they have plenty of those.

tremolo

i didn't even know these were out yet (they probably have been for ages, but it's too comfortable under the rock to know);

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=516099

Anyone that is looking for a guitar under 250 bucks USD, beginner or otherwise should grab one.....historically these lipstick pu's sound good and danelectros always increase in value.

tragictravisty

also their reissues are only 1 or 2 models per year, so get em while you can, theyll go up in value in another year or so when the stock sells out.

Robbmonster

tremolo said: i didn't even know these were out yet (they probably have been for ages, but it's too comfortable under the rock to know);
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=516099
Anyone that is looking for a guitar under 250 bucks USD, beginner or otherwise should grab one.....historically these lipstick pu's sound good and danelectros always increase in value.

19 frets on a 25" scale. Wouldn't that make it the opposite of short-scale??

Still, looks like one hell of a bargain, even if it is plywood 😉

jberneti

i don't think how many frets are on a neck affect a guitar's playability or 'lengthens' its scale. for example, if there are 19, 21 or 22 frets on guitars with identical scales, in all cases the 19th fret will be the same distance from the nut and the bridge. the only difference is that the frets after the 19th are 'added on.'

Robbmonster

jberneti said: i don't think how many frets are on a neck affect a guitar's playability or 'lengthens' its scale. for example, if there are 19, 21 or 22 frets on guitars with identical scales, in all cases the 19th fret will be the same distance from the nut and the bridge. the only difference is that the frets after the 19th are 'added on.'

I'm not sure I quite understand. I would think that having 22 frets in a 24" neck would be more 'compressed' than 19 frets in a 24" neck. I though the frets would have to be closer together to fit them into the scale

AnotherTool

No, Jberneti is correct.

The frets would be in the same positions, but if you just wanted a 19 fret guitar, then you wouldn't install the 20th, 21st, and 22nd frets.

Robbmonster

Another Tool said: No, Jberneti is correct.
The frets would be in the same positions, but if you just wanted a 19 fret guitar, then you wouldn't install the 20th, 21st, and 22nd frets.

So the neck would continue as a blank plank for an inch or two? Or is it a case that the headstock is longer?

AnotherTool

Whatever happens, the scale length (the distance between the front of the nut and bridge saddle) must remain the same, so the frets stay in the same place.

Look at any guitar, imagine it was bare fretboard from fret 19 to 22, that's what i't'd be like.

Robbmonster

Another Tool said: Whatever happens, the scale length (the distance between the front of the nut and bridge saddle) must remain the same, so the frets stay in the same place.
Look at any guitar, imagine it was bare fretboard from fret 19 to 22, that's what i't'd be like.

Okay I'll try one more time to get my head around this. Scale length is the length of the strings from nut to bridge saddle, not influenced by the lenght of the neck?

Does this mean longer scale guitars need to have the strings tighter to achieve the desired pitch?

I actually confused myself, because a while ago I measured my Telecaster from tip of headstock to end of neck and it was about 25.7", so I thought I had a 25.5" scale.

I just measured from nut to bridge saddle, and yes, 25.5", give or take a few mm's for intonation.

By the way, I only continue to ask because I am trying to learn, not to be bothersome. Sorry if I seem ignorant...

AnotherTool

It's cool man, you can tell you're a noob 😉

Of course the length of the neck matters, i mean you could for arguments sake, have the fretboard going right upto the bridge pickup, aslong as the frets, nut and bridge all stick to the scale length.

Yeah, longer scales need tighter string tension, a jaguar or mustang doesn't require as much tension as a strat or baritone or something.

Robbmonster

Another Tool said: It's cool man, you can tell you're a noob 😉
Of course the length of the neck matters, i mean you could for arguments sake, have the fretboard going right upto the bridge pickup, aslong as the frets, nut and bridge all stick to the scale length.
Yeah, longer scales need tighter string tension, a jaguar or mustang doesn't require as much tension as a strat or baritone or something.

The 18 rule, right?

This is what confuses me... (I promise I'll drop it soon)

On a short-scale guitar, the frets are closer together: true or false?

If true: wouldn't the frets on a 25" scale, 19 fret guitar be spaced further apart than a 25.5" 21 fret guitar, and further still from a 24", 22 fret guitar? If this is the case, then I go back to what I said about http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=516099 being the opposite of a short-scale.

If false: I have learned nothing, and been proven thoroughly wrong 😀

Edit: or is it just a case that the distance from the end of the fretboard to the bridge might be longer on the Danelectro???

AnotherTool

Robbmonster said:
The 18 rule, right?
I've never heard of the 18 rule, i don't know what it is or what it's supposed to mean.
On a short-scale guitar, the frets are closer together: true or false?
Closer than a scale length longer than 24" yes, true.
If true: wouldn't the frets on a 25" scale, 19 fret guitar be spaced further apart than a 25.5" 21 fret guitar, and further still from a 24", 22 fret guitar?
No. The fret positions are placed in a certain position, the first fret is placed so that when you fret the low e string in standard tuning, an F is produced, therefore, if you wanted to make a 12 fret instrument and play chords on it, you'd have to make the guitar the same size as the model you were going to use (say a jag), and then place the 12 frets in exactly the same place as a jaguars, the distance from the nut to the saddle would be the same length as the jaguar, or it wouldn't be a working 24" scale guitar.
Edit: or is it just a case that the distance from the end of the fretboard to the bridge might be longer on the Danelectro???
In the case of the Danelectro you posted, it's a 25" scale guitar with 19 frets, so compared to a shortscale jaguar, the distance between the frets is larger, but a PRS with 22 frets and the same scale length, would be the same size and have the same fret positions, but with the extra frets added on.

There is no "beginner" guitar, it all goes on budget and hand size.

If you're just taking guitar up, you need to try a couple, try a strat, a gibson and a mustang or jaguar, and whichever one you can comfortably fret a barre chord at the first fret is the scale length you should learn on, anything bigger and you may struggle. Having said that, the downside of shortscales is getting into those tight upper frets (if you have big fingers), you'll want to make sure you can get down there.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

tragictravisty

ok scale length is the length from the nut to the bridge. necks can be long if the neck pocket is moved closer in on the body, or vise versa. play with a slide at the 19th fret high E. this note is a B. now imagine that it has 21 frets, and approximate where the 19th fret is.

its a trick question, see? the distance from the bridge to the 19th fret will be the same for any guitar with the same scale. get it?

Robbmonster

I think I get it, but I think my original intent has been misinterpreted.

The initial point of this thread was someone saying he has small hands, and is looking to learn on a short scale guitar.

Then someone recommended the Danelectro with 24" scale and 19 frets, and I thought this guitar would have been the antithesis of what the OP was looking for.

I thought he was looking for a shorter scale, frets closer together, not frets further apart than normal.

That was how my questions got started.

I did some reading. "The 18 Rule" is the principle that each fret has to be 17.88 percent closer to the next than the space between the last. Lets say nut to 1st fret is 1". Then the space between 1st fret and 2nd fret has to be .82.22", and so on. It is how to work out har far apart the frets need to be in order for notes played at each fret to be in pitch.

I understand how it all works, but the amount of cross-discussion got confusing. Thanks to everyone for their patience 😀

Robbmonster

tragictravisty said: ok scale length is the length from the nut to the bridge. necks can be long if the neck pocket is moved closer in on the body, or vise versa. play with a slide at the 19th fret high E. this note is a B. now imagine that it has 21 frets, and approximate where the 19th fret is.
its a trick question, see? the distance from the bridge to the 19th fret will be the same for any guitar with the same scale. get it?

One last time, if I'm still wrong, I will drop it forever...

(all these figures are hypothetical) 25.5" scale. Strat, 22 frets. 11th fret 14" from nut, 22nd fret 17" fron nut, then another 8.5" to bridge saddles...

Fake guitar, JBR-7000, 25.5" scale, 30 frets. 11th fret 14" from nut, 22nd fret 17" from nut, 30th fret 21" from nut, 4.5" to bridge.

I know the numbers are wrong, but the principle is correct, right 😀

So...

A Danelectro with 19 frets on a 25" scale, and a strat with 21 frets on a 25" scale. The frets are spaced the same, but the neck on the Danelectro is an inch or two shorter???

AnotherTool

YEAH!

Mustang-Pete

He's got it!

Robbmonster

YAY ME 😆

so the point i was originally trying to make is correct: the Danelectro in the link will not meet the requirements of someone who has said they want a short-scale guitar

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