bowed neck

Robbmonster

I am no good at tech stuff, so I will ask before I act.

I got my Squier 51 recently, with the neck I bought it with now replaced with a stock 51 neck. However, it seems to me that when the new neck was attached and the strings (10-46) were put on and the guitar set up, it seems the truss rod was not tightened, and I strongly suspect I now have a (slightly) bowed neck.

I do not have a tool to measure this, but it just does not LOOK right. The strings at the 9th and 10 frets seem to be higher from the finderboard than they are at the 21st fret.

The questions I have are...

1) Should I adjust the truss rod? If so, then how much, and in which direction?

2) Do I need to loosen the strings before I do it?

3) Will the intonation need to be re-adjusted?

4) Once the truss rod is adjusted, do I need to leave the guitar alone for a period of time?

5) Or should I take it to a guitar shop and let a pro deal with it?

Thanks...

Mustang-Pete

First off... Is it a back bow or a forward bow?

It will likely be the truss rod needing adjusted. Which way to turn it depends on which way it's bowed 😉

tragictravisty

DONT TOUCH THE TRUSS ROD

the action is high, so just lower the bridge/shim the neck before touching the truss rod. And if you dont notice the high action in your playing, dont touch a thing.

by the way even if it is the neck, you tighten, not loosen.

Robbmonster

tragictravisty said: DONT TOUCH THE TRUSS ROD
the action is high, so just lower the bridge/shim the neck before touching the truss rod. And if you dont notice the high action in your playing, dont touch a thing.
by the way even if it is the neck, you tighten, not loosen.

The action on the guitar is actually super-low, but higher at about the 9th and 10th than it is at the 21st. Playing-wise, it's no problem at all, but I just thought that it might affect intonation.

If it's not a problem, I will leave it. But with the weather warming up now, I might get it looked at in a couple of weeks regardless.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

Mustang-Pete

Take a squint down the neck (from the tail end of the guitar) and look along the edge of the neck. You should be able to see if it's bowed.

Robbmonster

Mustang-Pete said: Take a squint down the neck (from the tail end of the guitar) and look along the edge of the neck. You should be able to see if it's bowed.

Just did what you suggested, Pete, and yeah, the neck is DEFINITELY not straight. Not a major warp, but if it enough for me to notice it, it must be bad enough. I'm stull a bit of a luddite when it comes to any tech stuff...

tragictravisty

if you dont notice it in playing, whats the problem? drop the strings a bit.

Fran

Fret the low E at fret 1 and the last fret, look at the distance between the fretboard and E string around the 8th fret. It should be around 2mm to 3mm. If its more the truss needs to go clockwise a quarter turn only. If its less the truss needs to go anti clockwise a quarter turn.

http://www.igdb.co.uk/pages/guitar_setup/truss_rod.htm

If the bridge is at its lowest point and the action is high around the last fret then you need to shim the neck.

tragictravisty

measure with a ruler the distance @ 1st, 8th, and last frets

Robbmonster

Fran said: Fret the low E at fret 1 and the last fret, look at the distance between the fretboard and E string around the 8th fret. It should be around 2mm to 3mm. If its more the truss needs to go clockwise a quarter turn only. If its less the truss needs to go anti clockwise a quarter turn.
http://www.igdb.co.uk/pages/guitar_setup/truss_rod.htm
If the bridge is at its lowest point and the action is high around the last fret then you need to shim the neck.

Thanks for that. After reading the article, I think any bow that I have is withing the recomended limits. New guitar, I think I'm probably just being paranoid. I have a gap of about 2mm at the 8th. If it is bowed, it is very slight, and as the action is extremlely low to begin with, it doesn't affect playing at all.

tragictravisty

necks should be slightly bowed, its a good thing.

funtoosh

yep, remember the neck must needs be slightly bowed to accomodate for string vibration - which is in the shape of a curve, of course, not linear.

takes some time to accept that, but once one has thought about it .... ,-)

Robbmonster

funtoosh said: yep, remember the neck must needs be slightly bowed to accomodate for string vibration - which is in the shape of a curve, of course, not linear.
takes some time to accept that, but once one has thought about it .... ,-)

Yeah reading the link that Fran posted was really helpful. It doesn make sense now.

But now I am a little worried because my Tele does NOT seem to bow... 😉

Mustang-Pete

Robbmonster said: But now I am a little worried because my Tele does NOT seem to bow... 😉

That doesn't really matter. As long as she plays nicely, and doesn't buzz, there's nothing to worry about! 😀

tragictravisty

its all about playability and sound, visually checking relief, or with a ruler is just a tool to help diagnose your guitar's problem if its not playing well. if it is, why mess with it? if its not broken, dont fix it.

Fran

tragictravisty said: if its not broken, dont fix it.

Robbmonster

Yeah, I know. I just tend to get a bit worried. I want my guitars to play as well as they can, but I am awful at making adjustments.

I was trying to take down the pickup height on the humbucker of my 51, and I adjusted it to be so low that it actually came off the screws and fell into the cavity.

It's things like that that I am prone to doing if I don't ask before I act...

But right now, both guitars are playing quite well, especially the 51.

tragictravisty

when im setting up a guitar for action purposes, instead of doing math, i take general notes with my eyes, and more importantly, my fingers. When i do bends, i want the strings im bending into (the ones i push against, not the one im bending) to remain elevated above the fretboard, neither going up my fingernails (ouch) or being fretted. thats how i set up action, by making sure that bends go like this everywhere on the neck. This results in a med-high action, higher than lots of people are used to, but in my opinion its the best setup for anything which is not shred, but uses bends. for lots of chords/arpeggios, few bends, and a conservative picking style you'd want a lower action, and for shred, youd want a med-low action, so that bends are easy to do, but it doesnt take real effort to fret strings.

Robbmonster

tragictravisty said: when im setting up a guitar for action purposes, instead of doing math, i take general notes with my eyes, and more importantly, my fingers. When i do bends, i want the strings im bending into (the ones i push against, not the one im bending) to remain elevated above the fretboard, neither going up my fingernails (ouch) or being fretted. thats how i set up action, by making sure that bends go like this everywhere on the neck. This results in a med-high action, higher than lots of people are used to, but in my opinion its the best setup for anything which is not shred, but uses bends. for lots of chords/arpeggios, few bends, and a conservative picking style you'd want a lower action, and for shred, youd want a med-low action, so that bends are easy to do, but it doesnt take real effort to fret strings.

I'm most chords, I'm just a pure strummer. The action on the 51 is super-low (in fact, lower than I even thought was possible), and maybe a little too low for me. But then again, this time 6 months ago, my main guitar was a beat-up old classical, so I am probably still adjusting.

But when I do play lead or solo, I do like to bend a lot. Not easy on the 51, but just fine on my Tele.

tragictravisty

your still fairly new into guitar though, right? at first, all i played was rythm parts, and now all i play is lead improv. also if you have several guitars, you can set one up for lead, one up for rythm, one up for hybrid styles, etc.